Simon is a former pastor of St Thomas’ Anglican Church North Sydney, and is passionate about teaching God’s word to people at all stages of faith.

Its very hard to answer questions with a ‘bumper sticker’ answer. If you lookin int he old testament God says if you walt his way you will be blessed, and if you walk the opposite way you will be cursed. Theold testament is not teaching salvaltion vby works. it is teaching if you turn to God you live and if you turn away you die. we want to teach the unbleiever that if you turn your back you die, if you turn to Jesus you live! the very fact that God chooses Abraham is grace not works. The very fact that God chooses Israel is grace not works.

If you read deutoronomy Moses will say 'take God seriously or you will be punished, but if you take God seriously you will be blessed in the land’. What he is saying is that you are in the land (by grace) now ‘take him seriously’, if you decide to be disobedient He (God) will remove you from the land. We say to our children, ‘we love you and you will be ours forever’. if the child turns around and says ‘am I here by works or grace?’ then we say: ‘we love you but sometimes the love looks like discipline, sometimes love looks like hugs’. When this is applied to a Christian obedience is not what saves you but what honors God and gives you joy! The question of right and wrong is ‘how are you going to honor him now that he has saved you?’.

Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophars formula is more like a cosmic 'karma' which is (Job 4:8) ‘you reap what you sow’. s

Job 4

7 “Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished?
Where were the upright ever destroyed?
8 As I have observed, those who plow evil
and those who sow trouble reap it.

That is partly true but it is not true for Job as Job has not done enough to deserve the punishment and disaster he is getting. The lord rebukes them because they are basically preaching Buddhism. Psalm 103 states he doesn't treat us as our sins deserve:

Psalm 103
7 He made known his ways to Moses,
his deeds to the people of Israel:
8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

The $64,000 question. I dont think the issue is about suffering. If it is about suffering it is very dissatisfying as Job never had his suffering explained to him. If you ask 100 people what Job is about they would likely say 'Job is about suffering' or ‘the patience of Job in suffering’. If you ask ‘does Job answer the question of why suffering happens?’ most will andswer 'no, it does not’. Job answers the question 'is God enough?' or 'is God there to make us happy?' in Job 1:8 God says:

Job 1
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
The Devil responds 'you pay him to love you'. Job then loses it all and he gets angry (and occasionally Job says stupid things) but God sustains him. The question in the book is 'is God only good for bringing us blessings?' The book of Job answers: ‘No!’ He himself is glorious! If we suffer and loose much and still have him we have everything, It is very satisfying as in chapter 42 Job bows down and says you are amazing, you are bigger and better than I thought without having his suffering explained to him.
Job 42
Then Job replied to the Lord:
2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.
4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”

It is like taking a child to surgery and the child saying 'if you really loved me you wouldnt take me to surgery'. Then (after surgery) the child turns around and says 'thank you, I know you love me'. The worst thing that happens int he book of Job is chapter 1:9 where the devil says 'God is a fool and Job is a fake'

Job 1
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied
10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
but then the books says ‘no, God is not a fool and Job is not a fake’. God is glorious and even if everything is taken away the life that God gives sustains them

Yes, Jesus said: ‘take up your cross’. In the book of acts we are told we must go through many trials to enter the kingdom. The believer suffers 1 Peter:

1 Peter

6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

God sends trials to purify the gold. The prosperity gospel has emphasised that God is only interested in doing sweet things to you, but that is not the New Testament, that God is going to work all things together for good and sometimes that will take great kindnesses and sometimes will take great trials. Why do we become a Christian? you need to know that God you made you and you will not get out of this life alive and there will come a day whan all these trials will be outweighed by glory.

2 Corinthians 4:18
18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal
With Suffering God is trying to make us mature. The only reason trials come is that in his wisdom God knows what is good for us

We know that from the cross we will never suffer the worst suffering possible, we know that clearly the disciples said ‘yes we can drink your cup’, but they could not drink the cup of judgement, the cup of being a disciple ion a fallen world. Whatever we suffer we have to understand that Jesus has taken away the greatest suffering on the cross. Because I have become a believer I am clashing with the world.
Mark 10
38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”
39 “We can,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, (Mark 10:40) but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.” In John 19:30 Jesus said ‘it is finished’, there is no more suffering for the atonement, but there is suffering allocated Paul said in Colossians 1:4 ‘I am experienceing my share of suffering’. We all have a certain amount of suffering to be experienceed, turning our back on sin, persecution or spiritual opposition. We dont have to suffer to contrubute to the atonement. Jesus carried our sins but we have to pick up the cross, not to be a ‘saviour’ but to carry the cross of discipleship. You need to think about the sacrifice, you need to count the cost to follow christ. Peter said (Mark 8) ‘we have left everything’, you will give eternal life and much more in this life!

We know from the character of God that Gods character is perfect and steadfast from the first to the last. We dont want to play off the Old Testament God and New Testament God. No christian would want to say 'I know Job suffered… so my suffering must be like Job’. Jobs sufferings were unique. The book of Job answers the question: ‘if everything gets taken away will you survive?" and the answer is ‘yes!’, God will sustain you. Job is extreme so we must be careful not to read ourselves in to the book of Job. Only Jesus suffered more than Job, losing everything, health, life, friends, possessions and got completely cut off by and from God. Because of Jesus we will never experience being cut off from God. It is a terrible thing that the devil would questions the Glory of God as the Devil is saying 'Job is a fake who only prays because you pay well you think he loves you, but he doesn’t’. The devils great aim is to dishonor God, the reverse of the Lords prayer. The boopk of Job sets this straight. The book of Job is a Pilgrims Progress journey - the fire and water the devil says you are NOT worthy God says we ARE worthy.

The 3 friends pretend to have information they don't and they have not been up into the Lords council, but we the readers are taken up to the Lords council but the 3 friends have not. They are speaking from their flawed human perspective.

Suggested Reading: Christopher Ash - the book of Job, he grapples with every part of the book.
https://www.crossway.org/articles/podcast-why-did-god-let-job-suffer-christopher-ash/

Dr Michael Youssef, Ph.D. (social anthropology) is the senior pastor of the Church of the Apostles, and the executive president of Leading the Way. Youssef was born in Egypt, where he became a Christian, and lived in Lebanon and Australia before moving to the United States. He has authored more than 35 books, including The Barbarians Are Here, End Times and the Secret of the Mahdi, and Jesus, Jihad and Peace..

Satan is a spiritual being therefore we can not depict him as anything... that is why he possesses people sometimes to accomplish some of his evil deeds Also The Bible said he can appear as an angel of light , pretending to be an angelic being. The characterisation of him with horns and pitch fork is not accurate

God made it very clear in the 10 commandments that we must not try to visualize him or creat an image of him. John the revelator who laid his head on Jesus’s shoulder when he was in the flesh hardly recognized the gloried Jesus. That is why Paul could say of Jesus that “ we know him after the flesh no more”. While we imagine what the glorified Jesus look like from John’s discrimination but even that can be dicy

It only means during one’s sleep, that he can speak at the night’s dreams

No doubt he built an altar just like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, build altars to the Lord to honor him and worship him

Probably on the ground, back then they used ashes as a cure or at least a temporary pain relief for skin wounds

We only know what the Bible tells about him I don’t think he represents any allegorical figure

Points to Remember:

• The whole message of Job is he is a ‘type’ of Christ,
• That not all suffering is a result of sin
• That all suffering for the believers is purposeful
• That God is sovereign and will be glorified through our suffering
• That people’s judgments are often wrong and self serving

Bob Mendelsohn is the leader of Jews for Jesus Austral-Asia, a territory that now includes Singapore and New Zealand. He lives in Sydney with his wife and children. Bob travels throughout the world sharing the message of Messiah Yeshua. He has preached or ministered on the streets in Korea, New Zealand, Singapore, Argentina, visited 47 of the 50 states in the US, and all over the traps in Australia from Perth to Townsville to Melbourne and to Port Macquarie

There is no satan in the jewish world. If you take it literally (which 95% do not take it literally) then this is conscience, Job having a battle between Good and Evil in the conscience. We know that it is written approximately the time of the pentateuch, but is it an Aesop fable (where the teaching matter) or a literal conversation. You start with the assumption that it is literal. What is the end of the conversation in Job 42 (similar to ecclesiastes and Revelation) it sounds like Job was humbled, stopped with the ‘white knuckling’ and trusted God. The ‘where were you’ needs to be a major culmination you weren’t there (Romans 9) who are you (clay) to tell the potter! Job is “Tamine” (perfect in every aspect physical, emotional, physical) he loves his kids , elephaz, his wife and everyone chides him...including God. White knuckled religion is not enough. Both prodigals rejected their father. Grace is surrender and this is what Job finally did. Job is the prodigal wayward son (though he thinks he is now) and the smug son (That son of yours) he is the religious but he is also the prodigal.

God is initially proud of Job (and literally blessing him) God allows a wonderful drama. At the end God restores Job. The question is why is it fair that Job’s children were destroyed? Creating a dream sequence at the may be a way of bringing the God/satan dialogue into the picture without taking the ‘punch’ out of the ‘this is a story’ narrative. The reality of the story is phenomenal, so don't let it get lost by those who demean it. it is a jewish thing forever that blessedness is a k-ching to the guys that earn it! Use fringes of the garment on the bottom of an outside garment (one of which is blue) this is very jewish. Skull caps were not used, but the fringes were there. You can add the mazzuzah at the door and the altar can be mosaic with the curvature of the 4 horns. after Abraham there was shofar blowing. Job would have gone to the priest on duty

Marc Shagal paintings have a phenomenal reality of the crucifixion. In the era between the wars and his painting about jewish suffering regularly. He puts the akedah (the binding of Isaac) with Abraham holding the knife and in the corner is a crucifix with a tallis wrapped around his loins. CHagall had no problem bringing in the crucifixion. What Job did was so honorable for his children. When Job says my redeemer lives and that I will see him this is a n invitation to an open tomb. 1 Cor 15. People allude to Job as a proof text. With your words you strengthen the knees that are weak (Hebrews chapter 12) our job is to strengthen...how do you do that? By your words! what we say either strengthens or belittles them.

Ps. Simon McIntyre is a founder and pioneer of the C3 Global movement, and the Regional Director of C3 Europe and Americas. A renown and respected preacher, teacher, husband, father, grandfather, Simon is a sharp Christian thinker - a believer anchored in the real world, someone who sees things differently. Simon has written numerous books including: Follow the Leader, Joshua – Lessons in the Wilderness, and Simon Says

The picture of ‘the satan’ is not the ‘horned demon’ seen in popular culture, but more a highly skilled and competent barrister who has the bold audacity to challenge God in a heavenly courtroom. It is not unusual for ‘The satan’ to actually be appearing before God, he is only there to question or impune God and to have a crack at Job. God is the judge and ‘the satan’ is the prosecuting attorney. The depiction of a horned demon does not depict the classic figure. The satan is incredibly smart and would appear as more of a barrister with the classic curl wig who only appears because you pay him well (a raging demon would not have a crack at God). ‘The satan’ is the accuser, less about Jesus and demons than a court at law. Job never accused God, he had a fight wirh God, not a prayerful conversation, but ‘pain driven’. Job never knew that he was just like a piece of Chess on the board, and if Job had of known it would not have made any difference!...Job’s children died, when something like that happens even if God were to tell you ‘why’ it doesn’t make any difference. The ‘knowing’ doesn’t help

Job could be literal, it could be mythical, I am somewhere in-between, this is not as important as the point that the story makes. The ‘spirit in the night’ is a mystical experience occurring in a vision, this word depicts prophetic visions as well as terrifying nightmares. Eliphaz is claiming revelation, ‘God gave me a message’ but I don’t think this was God. Eliphaz was wrong and God said that at the end…not a happy scenario it is a fair assumption to suggest that the spirit in the night is dark and ominous is a spiritual experience that ‘terrorises’ and is likely demonic.

The three friends present classical Middle Eastern thinking and unwittingly present the case for ‘the challenger’ it is not so with the argument of Elihu who holds Job accountable to God, closer to the truth but still not correct. This mindset was convinced that Job had to have done something so wicked, so bad that he deserved this punishment. His friends said he was ‘harsh to widows’ etc, but Job talked to God, he didn’t complain to his friends…and that is where we need to go, taking the big battles to God and not to our friends.

Suggested Reading: John Walton – How to read Job